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Darthmiller · Joined: 03 Mar 2007 Posts: 27

If we are born sinners then why wasn't Jesus one if he was fully human? I believe we have an inherently sinful nature and we have inherited the consequence of Adams sin but I am not fully convinced that man is born with the sin of his ancestors upon him, it was something that Jesus spoke against, it was not the sin of our parents or even our parents parents but our own failure to live up to the law which convicts us as sinners and it is only in the grace of Christ that we can be saved.

Presbyters= Reverands
Deacons= Servants of the church, new project starters, workers for Christ outside of the church ministering to those on the fringe

Ministers= Everybody
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Going to church no more makes you a Christian than standing in a garage makes you a car.

DavidH · Joined: 14 Aug 2007 Posts: 18

Having done a bit of digging around on the internet, (such a wonderful place as long as you're careful,) I discovered that there may be a connection between the early church's "rite" of baptism and the Jewish practice of "mikvah". Although today's Jews try to distance themselves from this and, over the centuries, mikvah has developed, for them, into something different altogether, it seems likely that the early (Jewish convert) Christians would follow the contemporary practice that they were familiar with and recognise what God had been telling them all along through it's ritual.

The Mikvah was a ritual bath which was performed before certain ceremonies and after certain bodily cycles (remember, we have young readers.) It had to be taken using "living" water, ie running water or water from a spring. Apparently, for the purposes of the mikvah, the Jews also regarded the sea as "living" water. We could pause here, to look into the ramifications of the term "Living Water" but, for the moment, I'll pass on that.

"Mikvah" was by full immersion, or at least making sure that every part of the body was touched by the water. This meant combing hair straight and, in the case of women with long hair, having another woman in attendance to make sure that every bit was soaked. There are apparently archaeological sites with mikvahs sited in them and they look very much like the small baptismal pools that you find in some baptist chapels. Of course, these were all connected to a running stream or spring, (quite hardy these folk - brrrr!)

The Mikvah apparently describes the act that would have been generally understood, by his visitors, as what John the baptist was doing in the Jordan (running, therefore "living" water.) It would also add weight to his claims that he was only using water but the coming Lord would exercise quite a different ministry.

Since the birth, life, death and resurrection of Jesus, we now have the one sacrifice, "once and for all." It would seem to follow then, that the early church adapted the mikvah to represent the one cleansing baptism in the Holy Spirit in a way that the whole church could share and rejoice in. As a sign to the church, (and the world,) only the one cleansing was now necessary as Christ died to wash away ALL our sins. Repeated "mikvah-ising" would not now be necessary.

I don't want to push this too far, using untried analogies but this would seem to be the origin of our practice of immersion "Baptism" in water.
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Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come:
and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.
Rev 14:7
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DavidH · Joined: 14 Aug 2007 Posts: 18